What I Am Up Against

 

jesus and d

I am discovering that there are real demons in this world and some of them are disguised as Christians. Some of them even have blogs. They know how to use scripture to support what they say but they also pervert scripture in the process. They have attacked me in my darkest hour and have shown a side of “Christianity” that is not of Christ. They are bloated by their self-righteous ego and pride and would rather be “right” in their own eyes than wrong in the eyes of others and they dare not even consider God’s eyes.

I would never have been able to have any kind of discourse with such a person in the earliest days of my loss but now I am stronger.  I felt it was necessary to present my understanding of God after reading what he wrote. My friends who are kind and compassionate will be staggered by his very last reply to me. If you don’t read anything else, please read the kind of vitriol this man, in the name of Christ, has spewed…..in his last reply to me. Here is Harry’s (his name) thoughts on depression:

“I don’t believe in low self-esteem. I would instead say that people who cut are deceived about themselves and about their situation. If a person is depressed or feel they are worthless, it’s because they love themselves to the point that they have certain expectations out of life and if those expectations they have of themselves or of their situations are not met, they get extremely frustrated.

This extreme frustration over wanting something better that they haven’t been able to obtain leads them to think that doing harm to themselves will alleviate their frustrations or rescue them from their situation. They want to be rescued by whatever means because ultimately they love themselves and feel they shouldn’t have to suffer what they’re going through.”

I posted a comment on a blog that was tearing down people who do self-cutting. I am not a cutter but I do try to understand mental illness. He also attacked people who die by suicide and his reasoning was beyond anything I could imagine. He wrote about it in a reply to another poor soul who happened upon his blog.

The author was full of himself and of the devil. I have posted excerpts of this discourse below. The link to his blog is here if you care to read the entire post; In fairness, because of its length, I have only posted those comments between us. It begins when I correct his use of scripture..To read the initial text and replies of others go to; (if you dare) You can’t get the full impact unless you read his original blog.

http://sunandshield.wordpress.com/2008/02/28/a-biblical-view-on-self-mutilation-or-cutting/

Lensgirl:

  1. Please correct your quote of 1 Samuel 28:19. You stated the following:
    “Nevertheless, he went to the same place Samuel the prophet did when he died which was the place in hell reserved for saints “(1 Samuel 28:19).

It should read as stated in the Bible: “What’s more, the Lord will hand you and the army of Israel over to the Philistines tomorrow, and you and your sons will be here with me. the Lord will bring down the entire army of Israel in defeat.” 1 Samuel 28:19

No where does it say that Samuel and the saints are in hell. In fact, Samuel is listed among other well known saints of the Bible in Hebrews 11: 32.

Hebrew 11:39,40 “All these people earned a good reputation because of their faith, yet none of them received all that God had promised. For God had something better in mind for us, so that they would not reach perfection without us.”

While we are all sinners and fall short of the glory of God…there should not be any harsh judgments made by we who are sinners of those who are just like us…it is God’s place to do this. You cannot be certain that people who have flawed behaviors are not suffering in their brains with illness instead of this “demonic influence” as mentioned in the Bible. Demonic influence is ANYTHING sinful. Illness is not a sin but is a result of a fallen world, and yet, there are religious people who are no better than the Pharisees who live by the law and not under the grace of God. It is those people who condemn and criticize those things they do not understand and use the LAW to do it.

I reserve the temptation to make over-all generalizations of mental illness as a flawed character instead of a definable physical illness since only God knows the hearts of us all. If anything is to be learned from this dialog it should be that cutting, judging, suicide, lying, adultery, stealing, vanity, pride, etc…..everything under the sun is sin in this world…and not one is greater than the other except in the critical eyes of an unforgiving world. I thank god for His love and mercy and for His Son Jesus Christ in whom I believe and trust. Salvation is best said in John 3:16…..

While we all struggle with everything imaginable in this world of imperfections we can know that our trust in Jesus is our way to eternal salvation and the Bible is the inspired word of God for each of us to draw close to Him and know His plan for our lives.

My son was a Christian who struggled with depression for a long time. His prayer journals are now in my possession. He prayed to God to help him to not destroy himself and yet he died by suicide. What is a Christian mother to believe? Was this a test of faith…who failed? My son…or me? My son is in Heaven along with all the other saints…great and small….and my God has allowed me to know this through Jesus Christ. My son’s “suicide” note was his last drawing ….. his soul going to heaven, helped by an angel in a Light from above. That’s all I need to know….not a bunch of people and their own misunderstandings and judgments. ..because they are not my God.

  /  March 25, 2014

Thank you for your correction on the 1 Samuel scripture. I’m sorry that your son committed suicide.

[there should not be any harsh judgments made by we who are sinners of those who are just like us…it is God’s place to do this.]

This all depends on what the situation is. In Matthew 18, Jesus commanded believers to pass judgment in cases where one of our spiritual siblings sins against another, giving us step-by-step on how to handle it. If the person refused to apologize and repent, he commanded us to treat them as unbelievers (Matthew 18:15-17). Paul verified what Jesus said in 1 Corinthians 5 when he commanded the church to confront the man who was fornicating with his stepmother. Then Jesus again in Revelation commanded several of the churches to take action against those who were disobedient in their midst and said if they didn’t, that he would remove their candlestick.

[You cannot be certain that people who have flawed behaviors are not suffering in their brains with illness instead of this “demonic influence” as mentioned in the Bible.]

This is where the gifts of the Holy Spirit come in. If a person is incoherent and acts violent or disruptive in the body of believers, they should be required to see if something is physically wrong, like a brain tumor, before allowing them in the congregation. This is out of love for everyone who attends that church for their safety. If nothing is physically wrong, God has given us as believers the power to pinpoint the problem by a word of knowledge or wisdom and then deal with it in the name of Jesus. This is also where the anointing from elders comes in that’s mentioned in James 5:14. But today’s church has let the world talk us out of operating by the Holy Spirit, so we put all of our trust in science over God instead of seeing science as just one of God’s tools.

[If anything is to be learned from this dialog it should be that cutting, judging, suicide, lying, adultery, stealing, vanity, pride, etc…..everything under the sun is sin in this world…and not one is greater than the other except in the critical eyes of an unforgiving world.]

All sin is wrong, but not all sin is equal. That’s why different sins have varying degrees of punishment in both the OT & the NT. In John 19:11, Jesus said that the person who caused him to be given into Pilate’s hands for punishment (Judas) had the “greater sin” than Pilate himself. He also told his disciples in Mark 6 that it would be “more tolerable” for Sodom & Gomorrah on judgment day than for the city that rejects the gospel. People also have varying degrees of devilish influences. At the most severe level, unbelievers can be literally possessed by one or more evil spirits. For Christians, the most severe level is not possession but outward oppression from a devil or devils that are trying to encourage us to do really bad things, or as in Paul’s case a devil that causes physical illness to try to hinder all the right things Paul was accomplishing.

  /  March 26, 2014

Speaking the truth in love, Harry…and in no way condemning what you believe to be your calling, I wish you would also add the love of God into your observations using scripture. The casual reader does not know the entire text you quote from and can easily be misled.

In defense of cutting…I seriously doubt that those who cut are even aware of such pagan rituals…really? They are seriously and emotionally ill and have resorted to something neither of us, as non-cutters, can fully understand. It would be a different matter if they were before some fire lit altar in a wooded area dancing around naked and chanting weird mantras. THAT would be a pagan ritual.

ABOUT Harry…..”Although I am not a Bible scholar, God has revealed many things to me in his word, the Bible, and I’m here to share a few of them. I am striving to be all God would want me to be, but like every other Christian, I am still fallible.”

Although I am not a Bible scholar, …” …

Hmmm. that same God also revealed to me, through my experiences in life and through the Word…the same Word you quote …as did also Satan when he tempted Christ and perverted the text as he did for his own use. You have stated that you are not a biblical scholar and that is evident in your cruel condemnation of those who are ill. You show no compassion or mercy, as Christ THE REDEEMER did and still does. I am sorry that you live in a land of never ending guilt and legalism….Jesus came to set us free so that me may recognize sin and repent and BE FORGIVEN of ALL OUR SINS. That is why all those sins are in the Bible…that is why there are Ten Commandments…so we can recognize that we are indeed sinners and need a Savior. We can never uphold the Law because of our weaknesses.

If any of your readers have never met Christ or know a thing about Him..then the words you have chosen to dissect from the Bible have shown Him in a poor light and have done nothing for the Glory of Him who loves us. IT IS WRITTEN:

Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved.” Acts 16:31
“He that believeth on Him is not condemned..” John 3:18

As Charles Spurgeon wrote in “Spritual Warfare in a Believer’s Life”…” Nothing can alter the Truth; it stands and must stand forever. Believer, abide by it come what may. Satan will say.”You know there are many evidences… show me one.” Tell him to mind his own business. He will say, “You know how imperfectly you have behaved, even since conversion.” Tell him that he is not so wonderfully perfect that he can afford to find fault with you. If he says, “Ah but if you were really a changed character you would not have those thoughts or feelings,” argue not at all with him but dwell upon the fact that it IS WRITTEN, “Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners.” 1 Timothy 1:15

I am not here to argue with you about what is sin so much as I am willing to share the love of Christ and how He can change lives through His forgiveness.

I hope that readers will understand just why it is that Jesus came to this fallen world…it was ALL about love. Only those who reject Christ have committed the unforgivable sin…we are all sinners and need a savior.

IT IS WRITTEN: John 3:17
“For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.”

As a Christian, I try to be understanding and merciful about those things which I cannot understand.

IT IS WRITTEN: Isaiah 55:8

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the Lord.
Isaiah 55:7-9 (in Context) Isaiah 55 (Whole Chapter)

  /  March 25, 2014

After reading all of the replies you have made to various comments, including the one below, I fully believe you are an insensitive person to the plight of other sinners while all the while professing to have an exclusive understanding of the Bible, using scripture. Your understanding is drawn mostly from the Old Testament wrathful God rather than the love, mercy and grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. Metaphorically, the Bible is lost on you who seem to be a literal reader.

Your understanding of mental illness is alarming and only emphasizes the stigma that was founded in the Dark Ages concerning suicide, depression, and the like. I hope you pray and ask God to guide you to give you an insight to the agonies of our world and the illnesses that affect not only our hearts, kidneys, blood system….but OUR MINDS as well. The brain is just as susceptible to illness as any other part of the body…but sadly it affects behavior and of this you are unqualified to make any kind of judgment as is proven by your words:

YOUR WORDS:
“I don’t believe in low self-esteem. I would instead say that people who cut are deceived about themselves and about their situation. If a person is depressed or feel they are worthless, it’s because they love themselves to the point that they have certain expectations out of life and if those expectations they have of themselves or of their situations are not met, they get extremely frustrated.

This extreme frustration over wanting something better that they haven’t been able to obtain leads them to think that doing harm to themselves will alleviate their frustrations or rescue them from their situation. They want to be rescued by whatever means because ultimately they love themselves and feel they shouldn’t have to suffer what they’re going through.”

  /  March 25, 2014

[I fully believe you are an insensitive person to the plight of other sinners while all the while professing to have an exclusive understanding of the Bible, using scripture.]

Excuse me, but aren’t you the one in the previous comment that said “there should not be any harsh judgments made by we who are sinners of those who are just like us…it is God’s place to do this”? Then how is it that you are now rendering a harsh judgment against me for speaking God’s truth? The principles God established in the OT are the same principles upheld in the NT. You are wrongfully implying there are two different Gods in the Bible. Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? (Galatians 4:16) It is your understanding that is lacking, not mine.

[Your understanding of mental illness is alarming and only emphasizes the stigma that was founded in the Dark Ages concerning suicide, depression, and the like.]

Another harsh judgment against me, eh? In case you haven’t noticed, all of the world’s scientific advances have continued to fail us as a society even though we put our trust in them. Why? Because they ignore our basic problem–sin. Why is it that we have all these medications to combat everything you mentioned, yet abuse of prescription drugs and people who die from overdosing on them is at an all-time high? The same drugs for fighting depression, mental illness, etc. are the same drugs causing people to die accidentally or by suicide. But I’m the one living in the Dark Ages. People should definitely see their doctors for help, but doctors aren’t the only answer and even doctors today are recognizing that fact:http://www.charismanews.com/us/42882-more-surgeons-praying-for-patients-before-wielding-god-s-scalpel

God’s power will always be greater than anything this world has to offer. And that doesn’t mean the two have to be in operation separately from each other as you have falsely implied that I’ve said. People who defend the practice of cutting are definitely under Satanic influence. When people are truly sorry for sin or sorry for their behavior, they don’t make excuses for it (like many have done here), but acknowledge their problem and talk about their efforts to rid themselves of it.

  /  March 26, 2014

Your comment is awaiting moderation.

You will find that many people will not acknowledge their problems for fear of what the world will think about them….and unless they are delivered from them, they think that they are not good enough and that God does not care. This is not the case because even the Apostle Paul had a “thorn” that he prayed relentlessly to be healed from and God did not deliver him from it. IT IS WRITTEN:

2 Corinthians 12:7 New International Version (NIV)
.”or because of these surpassingly great revelations. Therefore, in order to keep me from becoming conceited, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me.”

Thorn – a Christian perspective
The apostle Paul was plagued by a “thorn”–a problem, obstacle, or hindrance that is not specified but which clearly caused him great anguish. God didn’t remove this thorn at Paul’s request, and Paul came to view its persistence as a way of keeping him humble.
http://biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Corinthians%2012:7&version=NIV

You said:

When people are truly sorry for sin or sorry for their behavior, they don’t make excuses for it (like many have done here), but acknowledge their problem and talk about their efforts to rid themselves of it.”

No, they turn to God to rid themselves of “it.” and even then, we do not know if it will be so….the people who willingly posted their own experiences are most likely looking for help so that they can be rid of “it.”

harsh judgment” is a relative term and you misunderstand that “judgment” in this sense is meant as to “condemn a person to hell”…not as a decision or discernment., two very different meanings. Condemning people instead of leading them to the freedom that all Christians experience in knowing Christ is the harsh judgment that I am referring to…and it was in the general sense as in the word “we/us” and not the personal pronoun “you” that I used it. (“there should not be any harsh judgments made by WE who are sinners of those who are just like US…it is God’s place to do this”)

You quoted: In John 19:11, Jesus said that the person who caused him to be given into Pilate’s hands for punishment (Judas) had the “greater sin” than Pilate himself.

The “greater sin” is referring to “rejecting Christ”…and condemning Him to death….that is in no way to be compared to all the sins I listed. The world in its finite understanding of “sin” or crimes, have put into order from bad to worse…etc… so as to punish those who commit them. It is a societal, not heavenly, sentence. But, there are repercussions and consequences for all of us sinners.

While cutting is not healthy and most certainly not a good thing, I only defend the illness and/or weakness that is behind the problem of cutting, which is what this post brought to light. Satan is behind all illness and the injustices of his domain. Again, we live in a fallen world.

If we were to be able to speak face to face and understood better where we come from on our God revelations…it would be that we come from different backgrounds and experiences. Our tones could be heard and our love of truth would be behind each word. Posting and commenting in this manner can lead to a “war of words” using ‘weapons’ from the same arsenal..so to speak. I leave this discourse with the knowledge that we have merged our truths and hopefully, someone who needs spiritual help and also the help that is also provided in this world through whatever means God provides, will receive it.

  /  March 26, 2014

Your comment is awaiting moderation.

Please permit me to clarify my last reply: I am NOT defending Satan…where I write: “While cutting is not healthy and most certainly not a good thing, I only defend the illness and/or weakness that is behind the problem of cutting, which is what this post brought to light. Satan is behind all illness and the injustices of his domain. Again, we live in a fallen world.’

I defend that there IS an illness not brought on willingly but rather as a state of our fallen world and our sinful nature…not in defense of Satan.

thank you.

Harry A. Gaylord

  /  March 26, 2014

[No, they turn to God to rid themselves of “it.” and even then, we do not know if it will be so]

lensgirl,

You’re so worked up that you’re splitting hairs here. When I said they “talk about their efforts to rid themselves of it,” the fact they turn to God is part of what I was talking about. In my post I encouraged people to call on Jesus for help. You’re so belligerent against what I’ve said that you didn’t realize we’re saying the same thing here.

[The “greater sin” is referring to “rejecting Christ”…and condemning Him to death….that is in no way to be compared to all the sins I listed]

Again–you’re splitting hairs. When you try to judge me for pointing out where Christ talked of the “greater sin,” we’re saying the same thing. Judas betrayed Jesus because of his rejection of Christ with the hope he would be killed. That’s part of the whole picture. That betrayal was a greater sin than what Pilate was guilty of, as Jesus was pointing out. And I was just using that as an example from scripture to prove that sins have varying degrees of severity and punishments. God judges some sins more severely than others. If you truly had revelation from God you would know this because it’s obvious from Genesis to Revelation.

But enough of this back and forth. Let’s get to the real heart of the issue. I have struck a nerve with the truths I’ve spoken because I made you consider things you may never have considered before. You are still unsettled about the whys, whats, and hows when it comes to your son’s suicide. And that’s understandable. I really feel for you. But attacking me to try to tear me down because my truthful words stirred up some unresolved issues inside of you about that subject is not going to help your situation and it’s not going to help those who come here to find out the spiritual truth that is behind their cutting.

I know from your words that you have dismissed anything I could possibly say to try to help in any little way I can. But have you considered counseling for yourself? And by that I mean ongoing present-day and into the near future counseling from a true Christ-centered, God-fearing counselor. What your son did was his own choice and he is the only one responsible for making that bad choice. Just like every sinner, cutter or not, who comes here and reads all of the advice is the only one responsible for their own actions in the end. You’re not responsible and neither am I, so please, please don’t make either one of us or anyone else around you the punching bag for your son’s mistake.

  • lensgirl53

      /  March 27, 2014

    Your comment is awaiting moderation.

    You said:

    don’t make either one of us or anyone else around you the punching bag for your son’s mistake.”

    This speaks volumes of your character. Attacking my grief and my pain and being the “VOICE OF GOD”…..Who knew I was conversing with Satan this whole time.? You are a mean person who has yet to realize the pain and agony of this world which makes you understand God’s Word in a whole new Light. I hope you do get to realize it before it is too late. Your defense of your entire post has a rigidity and vitriol that does not draw people to Christ in fact it does the opposite.

    I am a Christian who has sought the counsel of Christian professionals who have been loving and understanding and know that my son is in Heaven. Your attack is not what Jesus would have done. No, I am have been in a dialog with Satan and I ask forgiveness from God for doing so. It is finished.

 

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11 thoughts on “What I Am Up Against

  1. All I can say is WOW. I know there are people like this in the world (I can’t call him a Christian), who use the bible to support their self-righteous agendas and their hatred of others who won’t agree with them. But this guy takes the cake. Can you imagine yourself heaping this vitriol on someone who is already suffering? This flies in the face of anything remotely considered compassionate and Christian-like, and only makes me question the religion even more.

    • Sadly, there are people who are mean-spirited. I have learned to choose some of my battles and I am always on guard for those kinds of people who twist the truth. Believe me when I say that most Christians who know the Truth do not treat others this way. Thank you for your kind support!

  2. Just re-read. Dismiss and forget this person please! There are better Christians around, like me! I was once ‘attacked’ like this and it went on and on until I realized that the other person was enjoying the whole thing. Please know how much my hear is with you and you do not need this kind of crap. xxx

    • Thank you Julie. I have to be cautious about such as this and when I can expose people like this, i will. They do more harm than good for the cause of Christ. xo

  3. Wow Dale…I am so sorry that you have found yourself wrestling against someone who twists God’s words to encourage, ultimately, “hate” and not love…(a tactic of the enemy, I might add…)

    I totally validate what YOU wrote and am agitated by what HE wrote. The love and mercy and complete understanding of God trumps all human “reasoning”…

    I also feel his comments (particularly the last one) was an attempt…to “cut” you…how apprapho to the initial topic, huh?

    You know the Truth…and the enemy can “disguise himself as an angel of light”…or as a “Believer” using Scripture interpretation to whack their opposers into retreat position…how demonic is that?!

    You’ve just gotten increased treasure in Heaven-for undergoing such earthly persecution, dearest Dale. Don’t let him rattle you-you know the TRUTH and I completely agree with all you’ve written. You are a true soldier in Christ and a gentle -yet formidable- opponent to untruth! I love you! Donna

    • Donna, what a clever use of the word “cut”….yes, he did try to cut me, using Brandon’s suicide, but right away I knew that a real Christian would never resort to that. I think it was a dialog with the devil…as when Jesus was being tempted by Satan, who quoted scripture incorrectly (about angels)….I had a strong feeling come over me when I read all he had to write but I feel that it was the Holy Spirit who helped me reply. 🙂

      Thank you, friend, for reading and commenting. I really wanted people to weigh in on this one. I love you, too…and Brandon bear hugs enfold you!!

  4. The internet is full of evil, ignorant people hiding behind the safety and anonymity of their computers. I’m pretty sure if Brandon were able to….he would tell you to step away from your laptop for a while. Forget the haters that are there. Go outside. Look up at God’s big blue sky, breathe deeply and know that IT DOESN’T MATTER what anyone says. Brandon is in Heaven. Waiting for us to be done with our work here on earth. And he doesn’t want you to be bogged down with this….he doesn’t want you to be tormented by the unbelievers. Rejoice in the fact that YOU WILL see your son again. And when you do….all of this here on earth will be a faded memory. Love you Mom.

    • I love you #1 daughter! Thank you for always reminding me just what a beautiful life I do have and we all will have for eternity when we see our sweet and lovable guy again.

      xoxomom

  5. So sorry to read the things on his blog, my friend. Surround yourself with supporters and allow those who understand to uplift you. As Jesus said, “And if anyone will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet when you leave that house or town.” [or blog – my words, not His!] Matthew 10:14

    • Thank you Irene, yes, I am shaking the dust off and I pray that he does no more damage to the others who actually self-mutilate and are reading his blog. I am blessed with a host of true friends, on the net and at home, and also ,family who know the Truth and support me in the loss of my son. My worry is for those who read his harmful portrayal of our Lord, as angry and unforgiving.

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